Classic Tinware - lies & more lies!: January 2014

INTRODUCTION.

I buy from, and sell to, all corners of the world; usually without major problems. The occasional hiccup when the Google translator service throws the odd wobbly but nothing too severe. I buy some stuff from a Japanese manufacturer - neither of us speaks the others language or even reads the writing. But we get along and do business together. More easily now that we have had some time to build some trust between us. But the unpalatable truth is that there are some folk out there who just do not 'get' the Internet with all its advantages and disadvantages too. They seem to think that if they screw you over then it's 'just' you and no one else will ever know about their second rate products,lacklustre service, questionable ethics and blatant lies. BUT, I found someone who is of the opinion that since I am a long way from them then I can't do a thing to affect them. We shall see.

So, with hardness in my heart, I write to you to warn you of a company that is either supremely incompetent (and staffed by amateurish and inept liars) or is engaged in rip-off tactics of the highest order. If you hear of them, or you are approached by them or you even know friends who may be tempted by their wares then I implore you to RUN A MILE while you still have the money in your pockets! If you were particularly mean spirited and vindictive then you could extract revenge upon an enemy by sending THEM in the direction of the company concerned.

Let me give you a VERY brief rundown on this particular company (the email count runs to 32 at the moment). I have ALL the emails at my fingertips should any legal proceedings develop.

1. They approach me to sell some of their goods to me. (08-09-2013)

2. I order some of their goods, the order split 50/50 in 2 sizes. (they confirm items in stock 5-11-2013)

3. I pay for the goods. (7-11-2013)

4. They send me the total order quantity in 1 size.

5. I explain that they have the order wrong.

6. They say they never had quoted me for the missing size. (22-11-2013, the lies begin here and continue despite me PROVING they are lying).

7. They prevaricate (repeatedly) regarding a refund and offer to offset my refund against the future purchase of petrol tanks as long as they can falsify the invoice to their own benefit.(18-12-2013)

8. I refrain from telling them what to do with their petrol tanks (18-12-2013)

9. In light of their failure to communicate and remedy the situation I release the story onto the internet as a warning to others (22-1-2014)

The WHOLE trail (with dates) is tracked out below.

The people you want to avoid are an Indian company who trade as "Classic Tinware". Remember this name, CLASSIC TINWARE, imprint it, BURN IT into your memory lest you be tempted to do business with them. Should you ever read of CLASSIC TINWARE, INDIA anywhere just smile to yourself, put a big red line through the advert and walk away happy in the knowledge that you have saved yourself some hard earned £/$/€ and a whole load of unnecessary aggravation.Not having to deal with liars and scam artists is also a BIG bonus in my opinion. Mark Twain is oft quoted as being the originator of the saying " Lies, damned lies and statistics". I would modify that to read "Liars, damned liars and CLASSIC TINWARE".

Thank you for the opportunity to let me vent some spleen & apologies for intruding upon threads unspecified.

Finally; if any are minded to assist me in spreading the good news to other fora then please feel free to cut and paste to your hearts delight. I shall be posting on these fora:

Access Norton

MotoScrubs

DOCGB

Bevelheads (FaceBook)

Ducati Forum (FB)

Ducati bevel racers (FB)

and any others I can think of.

They have a footnote on their home page "What others say". I can only assume that 'Chris' is either in their pocket OR has never had the opportunity to deal with a decent, honest enterprise.

My thanks to Mr Robert Hartman for his advice on how to reveal this whole sorry episode to the world at large. Thank you Bob - Diamond Geezer!

8-9-13

I am Anil from Classic Tinware.

Would you still be interested in our Monza caps?

We can offer better discounts as the USD and GBP currency rates are strong.

Thank you

Anil

10-9-13

Hello Anil,

Thank you for your consideration with these matters.

Would you care to make me an estimate for the following items: delivered to Post Code LL21 9EJ in the UK.

2" Monza, 100 pieces

2.5" Monza, 100 pieces.

Also; you may include 1 piece at 2.75" as a sample along with a single piece of 2.5" neck in flange type and also weld on type.

Are the products pre-packaged ready for sales or is any further packaging required?

Thank you.

11-9-13

Hello Sir,

Thank you for your reply.

Here are the prices based on today's currency exchange rate:

2" cap- 7.85 (THESE ARE NOT READY IN STOCK. WILL BE READY WITHIN 15 DAYS)
2.5" cap- 8.05 (READY IN STOCK)

Postage door to door will be GBP. 50 for 100 caps or GBP. 85 for 200 caps.

We will include samples for the filler necks and 2.75" cap.

These caps are packed in small boxes. We further pack them in metal / cardboard boxes according to the order.

Thank you
Anil

11-9-13

Hello Anil,

For my initial order with you I think it would be in my interest to order only 50 pieces of each item.

So, please send me your proforma invoice for 50 pieces of 2" & 2.5". Include also your payment details.

Thank you.

Howard

12-9-13

Here are the details for transfer:

Account details-
Account name: ANIL KUMAR TIWARI
Account number: 04811530007725

Bank / Branch details-
Bank Name: HDFC BANK
Branch: KARKARDOOMA
Address: PLOT NO.18, G-1 & 2, GROUND FLOOR, ASHISH CORPORATE TOWER, KARKARDOOMA, DELHI-110092
State: DELHI
Country: INDIA
Swift Code: HDFCINBB
IFSC Code: HDFC0000481
Branch Code: 0481

5-11-13

Hello,

Do you have these parts available in stock yet?

thanks

Howard

6-11-13

Hello Howard,

How are you?

We have the caps in stock now.

Would you also like us to make fiberglass, steel and aluminium fuel tanks for you? As you are more into Ducati motorcycles, we have Ducati 750SS, RT450, Elite, Vic Camp tanks in fiberglass, steel and aluminium. Apart from these, we have developed alloy tanks for Ducati SC1000 and Streetfighter. Working on Ducati monster, Paul Smart, MV Agusta F4 and other late model Ducati, BMW, MV Agusta. Aprilia will be on the line after these are done.

Thank you.

Anil

7-11-13

Hello Anil,

I will make the payment to your account today; should be with you in 2-4 days. look for the payment reference 'Discovolantemoto'.

I would be interested in the aluminium Vic Camp tanks, what thickness aluminium sheet do you use? What size are the fuel tap fittings? Perhaps you can give me a price for 5 including delivery to the UK?

Thank you.

7-11-13

Hello Sir,

Thank you for your mail.

Do you have our bank details?

All our alloy tanks are made of 5051 grade 14 gauge aluminium sheets, completely TIG welded, polished and pressure tested to ensure there are no leaks. Fuel tap fittings are same as Ducati 750SS tanks.

We can offer each tank for GBP. 285. Shipping for 5 tanks will be GBP. 225. Total for 5 tanks including shipping would be GBP. 1650. These will come with the Monza filler caps mounted.

Please advise.

Thanks and Regards

Anil

12-11-13

Hello Sir,

How are you doing?

We have received the payment, thank you.

I would like you to send me the details of your order and shipping address to avoid confusion.

Would you still be interested in Vic Camp tanks?

Hope to read from you soon.

Thanks and Regards

Anil

12-11-13

Hello Anil,

The order remains exactly the same as that which you confirmed to me on the 12th of September. Please check your records.

Please send the items to the following address:

Discovolantemoto

10 Garreg Lwyd

Gwyddelwern

Corwen

Denbighshire

LL21 9EJ

Telephone: 01490 412621

I am still interested to in the Vic Camp tanks but I will wait and see how this transaction develops first.

Please confirm when the goods are underway and also any tracking numbers relevant to them.

Many thanks

13-11-13

Hello Sir,

I am unable to find the 12th September mail.

Is it:

2" cap- 7.85 (THESE ARE NOT READY IN STOCK. WILL BE READY WITHIN 15 DAYS)
2.5" cap- 8.05 (READY IN STOCK)

Postage door to door will be GBP. 50 for 100 caps or GBP. 85 for 200 caps.

Please advise.

Regards
Anil

13-11-13

Hello Anil,

That is correct.

Thank you.

Howard

13-11-13

Great! Thank you. I'll get them sent.

Thank you

Anil

19-11-13

Hello Anil,

I am pleased to report the safe arrival of my shipment of Monza type filler caps. However, that is the last of the good news.

I am severely troubled that my order for (and I quote below from you confirmation of my order, 12 September) has been incorrectly supplied:

Transaction ID: 7AU926223S119870V

Qty		UNIT PRICE	Description	Amount
50		7.85	2" MONZA CAP	392.5

8.05

2.5" MONZA CAP

402.5

SHIPPING: 50

Total:	GBP. 845

You can see that each item requires 50 pieces.

In fact I have actually received 100 items at 2.5" and 0 items at 2.0". In addition, I estimate that 50% of the filler cap/ tank paper gaskets are unfit for purpose in that they are either torn or frayed as to render them unfit for use. You may also recall that sample items of the filler neck and the 2.75" filler cap were also requested and authorised by yourself. These sample items have not been received.

I look forward to your early response to this problem with a view as to how it may be quickly resolved.

Many thanks.

19-1-13

Hello Anil,

HELLO MR. DAVIES,

I am pleased to report the safe arrival of my shipment of Monza type filler caps. However, that is the last of the good news.

GOOD TO HEAR THAT, THANK YOU.

I am severely troubled that my order for (and I quote below from you confirmation of my order, 12 September) has been incorrectly supplied:

SORRY TO HEAR THAT BUT I ADVISED IN MY MAILS THAT THE 2" CAPS ARE NOT RIGHT.

Transaction ID: 7AU926223S119870V

Qty		UNIT PRICE	Description	Amount
50		7.85	2" MONZA CAP	392.5

8.05

2.5" MONZA CAP

402.5

SHIPPING: 50

Total:	GBP. 845

You can see that each item requires 50 pieces.

I WILL SEND THE 2.75" CAP SAMPLE BUT THE 2" CAPS ARE INCORRECT. I AM SORRY THERE IS A CONFUSION.

PLEASE ADVISE.

THANK YOU

ANIL

19-11-14

Please send me details of the email where you reported this problem to me. Because, as far as I can see (and I have checked EVERY email between us) there has never been a case where you have stated such a thing.

Howard

19-11-13

Hello Howard,

I'll check my mails and get back to you.

Regards

Anil

20-11-13

Hello Anil,

I hope you have by now had the chance to verify all your emails between us both and are able to confirm that the subject of the 2" filler caps was never raised.

I look forward to your reply at your earliest opportunity.

Regards

Howard

20-11-13

Hello Anil,

HELLO HOWARD,

I hope you have by now had the chance to verify all your emails between us both and are able to confirm that the subject of the 2" filler caps was never raised.

YAHOO CHANGED THE WHOLE LAYOUT OF THE MAILBOX AND I AM HAVING DIFFICULTY FINDING THE MAILS. PLEASE ALLOW ME SOME TIME.

I look forward to your reply at your earliest opportunity.

I'LL GET BACK TO YOU ASAP.

THANK YOU

ANIL

21-11-14

Hello Anil,

So sorry to hear that you are having difficulties finding the information you are looking for. The reason is of course that it does not exist. That is to say, you have never mentioned at any time the non availability of the 2" filler caps. So to try and find some spurious or imaginary email is, to my mind, a complete waste of time and merely compounds your initial attempt to deceive. I urge you to apply your mind to solving this problem as quickly as possible.

You will note that if you expand this email then you will find the complete email exchange between us since July of this year. Not once is there mention of problems with the 2" caps; in fact you will see your own statement "not ready in stock, ready in 15 days".

Finally, you can understand that in light of this problem with my very simple order and the way you have dealt with it so far I am very reluctant to order the aluminium petrol tanks that we also discussed. I understand that you may be suffering some confusion with regard to customer emails; you receive many hundreds every week I'm sure. Perhaps it might help if I explained the situation on your Facebook page or through one of the many forums you deal with (the Norton group for example) and try to determine if there is anyone there that has received my emails in error.

I look forward to receiving your email reply within the very near future.

Regards

22-11-13

Hello Sir,

Sorry for the confusion but I was under the impression that you would like 2.5" only since other ones were in process.

Please let me know what can we do to sort this?

Thank you

Anil

22-11-13

Hello Anil,

Pardon me, but this is the first time I have been made aware of any potential confusion in our messages. There never was confusion on my part, and as far as I was aware, there was none on your part either.

The order could not have been much simpler; send 50 of 2.5" and 50 of 2.0" to my address after you have received payment. Surely it is not too much to expect that if you have any doubts or queries concerning an order then clarification should be obtained before the order is progressed further?

Also, you will see that I waited until I was fairly sure that the smaller caps would have been available. On the 11th of September you quoted availability at 15 days; this would be the 2nd of October when they should have been ready. On the 6th of November you confirmed that you had the caps in stock. You confirmed the order on the 12th of September for goodness sake. Wherein did the confusion arise?

As to how this situation may be rectified may I propose that you arrange the collection for return and shipping of the surplus 2.5" caps and also arrange for the delivery of the 50 2.0" caps as per my original order. This, I would regard as an equitable solution as far as I am concerned since none of this is my fault and I see no reason to impose further financial strain upon myself due to your inability to fulfill an agreed contract.

I would suggest that you take time to consider your position in this matter. I have wasted far too much of my time already in dealing with the after effects of your business failings. The next email I receive from you I expect you to have a solution to hand and I do not expect that solution to involve me paying a single penny out of my own pocket.

Regards

Howard

23-11-14

Hello Sir

I'd be happy to receive them back but I do not know any shipping company that does that.

Do you know somebody who can do that?

Regards

Anil

23-11-13

Hello Anil,

This is not a problem of mine; you are solely the architect of your own misfortune.

May I suggest that you contact DHL, UPS, FedEx or similar International courier organisations and pay them to assist you in sorting your problems out.

24-11-13

Dear Sir,

I'll let you know if one of our customers are interested in these who are based in the UK.

Thank you.

25-11-13

Hello Anil,

I will wait to the end of the week, 29th November 2013.

You may make the refund payable to my Paypal account. I will give you the details prior to the goods leaving me.

Regards

25-11-13

Hello Anil,

HELLO,

I will wait to the end of the week, 29th November 2013.

MAKE IT 5TH OF NEXT MONTH. I'LL BE BACK IN DELHI.

You may make the refund payable to my Paypal account. I will give you the details prior to the goods leaving me.

SURE.

I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE.

THANK YOU

ANIL

10-12-13

Hello Anil,

I presume you are now back in your office and able to process the refund through Paypal without further delay?

I calculate the refund as follows:

50 pieces of 2.00" (not received) £392.50

50% shipping £25.00

TOTAL £417.50

You may make the refund payable, as a gift to me unless you want to pay the Paypal costs? My Paypal address is daviesthebike@gmail.com

I look forward to receiving your payment in the very near future.

thanks

11-12-13

Hello Sir,

I'd be happy to do that. What about the 50 caps you have please?

Thank you.

11-12-13

Hello,

I have the 50 caps available here once you have decided where you want to send them to.

thanks

13-12-14

Thank you.

Would you like us to supply alloy tanks as well please?

Regards

Rohan

17-12-13

Hello,

You can appreciate that I am not keen to partake in further business ventures with your company while this current episode is still outstanding. However, if the refund takes place as promised then I will certainly consider further dealings with you next year.

I look forward to receiving the refund in the very near future.

regards

Howard

18-12-13

Hello,

I was thinking of giving you a refund through tanks.

I'll reduce the cost on the tanks invoice.

Please advise.

Thank you.

18-12-13

Hello,

No. This solution is not acceptable to me and I will explain my reason why.

I have received nothing but excuses and implausible explanations since I put my money into your bank account and received an incorrect order.

You can understand that I am unwilling to engage in further commerce with an organisation that is:

1. Incapable of supplying that which it was contracted to do.

2. Exhibits no inclination to rectify the situation caused by its own personnel.

So, let me be make myself perfectly clear on this matter:

1. I have the 50 filler caps in my care and it is your problem to sort out their removal and my reimbursement.

I expect the next email I receive from you to contain instructions where you have arranged for the collection of the parts. Prior to their collection you will, of course, have refunded my account to the value of £417.50

Thank you.

Howard

and that is where communication ended between myself and these Indian fraudsters. Did I hope for better? Of course I did. Do I believe I will receive recompense? No, of course not! Will they ever trick someone else out of their money with promises and lies? Probably - but not if I can help it. :-)

Classic Tinware - lies & more lies!

Sunday 26 January 2014

Classic Tinware - lies & more lies.